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> I stand corrected ;-)<BR>> <BR>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: wpkg-users-bounces@lists.wpkg.org [mailto:wpkg-users-<BR>> > bounces@lists.wpkg.org] On Behalf Of K.E.Jones@bton.ac.uk<BR>> > Sent: 11 February 2009 02:33<BR>> > To: Chris Wilcox<BR>> > Cc: wpkg<BR>> > Subject: Re: [wpkg-users] Stopping installations being called each<BR>> time<BR>> > WPKGruns...<BR>> > <BR>> > Hi,<BR>> > <BR>> > > -----Original Message-----<BR>> > > From: wpkg-users-bounces@lists.wpkg.org [mailto:wpkg-users-<BR>> > > bounces@lists.wpkg.org] On Behalf Of Tomasz Chmielewski<BR>> > > Sent: 10 February 2009 22:06<BR>> > > To: Chris Wilcox<BR>> > > Cc: wpkg<BR>> > > Subject: Re: [wpkg-users] Stopping installations being called each<BR>> > time<BR>> > > WPKG runs...<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Chris Wilcox schrieb:<BR>> > ><BR>> > > > That gets me to my question - the commercial system I use will<BR>> > never<BR>> > > > initiate a package installation if the local and network ini file<BR>> > > says<BR>> > > > that the package is already installed. With WPKG, it seems you<BR>> > MUST<BR>> > > > specifiy conditions to prevent this occuring? Most of the<BR>> software<BR>> > I<BR>> > > > use is educational stuff and is not listed in any of the WPKG<BR>> > silent<BR>> > > > installer pages - it can often be quite difficult to work out what<BR>> > > > condition syntax to use to prevent installs repeating at each<BR>> > > > workstation boot - MSI's handle this a little better as they don't<BR>> > > > normally repeat the whole install, but many exe based<BR>> installations<BR>> > > > insist on re-installing even if the app is already on.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Am I missing something obvious here? Should WPKG try to repeat<BR>> > > installs<BR>> > > > at every boot if the package does not have any condition syntax?<BR>> > ><BR>> > > You missed this one:<BR>> > ><BR>> > > http://wpkg.org/Execute_once_/_always<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Does it solve your problem?<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > <BR>> > Hi Tomasz,<BR>> > <BR>> > I'm not entirely sure Chris meant that. I think he was talking more<BR>> > about the general<BR>> > complexity of package definitions as a whole.<BR>> > <BR>> > Hi Chris,<BR>> > <BR>> > Most commercial systems rely on solely on getting a clean exit from<BR>> an<BR>> > install and<BR>> > then updating their files to say software is installed. In an ideal<BR>> > world this is totally<BR>> > correct and just "works". In an un-ideal world, just because an<BR>> > installer says it worked,<BR>> > it's not necessarily true that it worked the way you expected. I see<BR>> > what you mean but in<BR>> > some ways you're highlighting a problem with the commercial systems.<BR>> > They don't "check",<BR>> > they make assumptions...<BR>> > <BR>> > WPKG hedges its bets because, quite frankly, dumb things happen.<BR>> > Installers can sometimes<BR>> > screw up without appearing to fail and if they don't re-check things<BR>> > you<BR>> > also run the risk<BR>> > of admins and power users fiddling with stuff behind their backs.<BR>> > <BR>> > The "checks" are simple tests to look for some key registry entry,<BR>> > file<BR>> > or other thing to<BR>> > verify if a package is installed or not. It's kept flexible so WPKG<BR>> can<BR>> > be a general launcher<BR>> > of software and not just installers but you can also put more checks<BR>> in<BR>> > to handle power users<BR>> > and admins playing with things.<BR>> > <BR>> > I have to admit working out the "checks" to confirm something is<BR>> > installed can be a pain<BR>> > but it is literally a precautionary test to check if software got<BR>> > installed. I generally<BR>> > only use the "uninstall" key check to confirm things. I've rarely used<BR>> > the other checks<BR>> > because most people fear my wrath if they play around with their<BR>> > systems<BR>> > ;-)<BR>> > <BR>> > The things is, as you quite rightly say, WPKG *always* performs these<BR>> > checks. I don't think<BR>> > anyone has queried that before and that's a bonofide comment. I'm<BR>> > wondering if you really<BR>> > could streamline WPKG to not need checks... hrmmm... It's worth<BR>> > thinking<BR>> > about! I'll try<BR>> > and do some groundwork for the devs and see if I can make a case for<BR>> it.<BR>> > <BR>> <BR>> And ...and here I'm corrected ! As Rainer says, if you don't supply<BR>> checks... no checks are made... doh! Back to reading the code again!<BR>> <BR>> Keith<BR>> <BR>> > I come from an educational background too. Even worse, we teach<BR>> > "Business" here so the software<BR>> > is expensive and full of copyright protections! If you'd seen the<BR>> utter<BR>> > rubbish with activation<BR>> > keys, internet activation and registration dialogs our software throws<BR>> > up you'd understand why<BR>> > I'm glad I've got WPKG to play with!<BR>> > <BR>> > I've tried just about everything from repackaging software, making my<BR>> > own self-healing MSIs,<BR>> > using AutoIt (to automate keypresses) through to fighting old<BR>> > InstallShield setups and recording<BR>> > response files to replay to it. Installers are just nuts nowadays!<BR>> > <BR>> > I agree totally with you on the MSI front. MSI's are a much cleaner<BR>> > way<BR>> > of installing software.<BR>> > I also have to admit that they're a right pain to write correctly! MS<BR>> > has not approached<BR>> > MSI with an idea of making it simple!<BR>> > <BR>> > Ho hum,<BR>> > <BR>> > Anyway, I'd better get back to other things...<BR>> > <BR>> > Have fun,<BR>> > <BR>> > Keith<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > ><BR>> > > --<BR>> > > Tomasz Chmielewski<BR>
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Cheers for the guidance on this folks - I've just started playing with WPKG over the past few weeks - given I have 14 schools I will be using this in, I've set up a dedicated 'package test' PC at my main site and am starting to look at the suitable 'conditions' for the packages I'll be rolling out. It is starting to make a bit more sense and in ways it is better than my 'commercial' stuff in that if a student does remove a program, WPKG will simply re-insall it at the next reboot. Useful for the small schools with little security on the desktops :)<BR><br /><hr />Windows Live Hotmail just got better. <a href='http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/windowslive/products/hotmail.aspx' target='_new'>Find out more!</a></body>
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